eRepublik:Bar/Debate 9

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Templates Improvements


Contents

Redesign discussions

Page Type Template DISCUSSION Implemented
Citizen Page Template:Citizen Template talk:Citizen Agent's version (by Geo)
Company Template:Company Template talk:Company
Newspaper Template:Newspaper Template talk:Newspaper Abedecian's version (by Dimow)
Organization Template:Organization Template talk:Organization
Party Template:Party Template talk:Party Abedecian's version (by Dimow)
Country Template:Country Template talk:Country
Region Template:Region Template talk:Region BGBW's version (by Geo)
Military unit Template:Military unit Template talk:Military unit Abedecian's version (by Dimow)
Flag Template:Flag Template talk:Flag
Country currency Template:Country currency Talk:Philippine Peso
Congress Template:Congress Template talk:Congress

Template Project

Project Stage Details Test cases
Template:Ministry or Template:Department N/A Not started
Template:Organization Gamma Ready for implementation Sakad
Template:Company N/A Not started
Template:Party Gamma Ready for testing and tweaking Spectrum, RFA
Template:Company N/A Not started
Template:Country N/A Not started
Template:Region N/A Not started

Abedecian ~ Flag-UK.jpg Talk to me and you get cake! Cake small.png 01:09, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

A general suggestion: to test the templates you can temporary (using the preview function) add them to pages already using the old ones. This way most of the errors can be checked right away --Mini "Template" Bill Icon-Italy.png bother me! 10:23, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
THE TEMPLATE SHOULD BE CALLED "ORGANIZATION" WITH A Z to replace the existing one! --QJ Lincoln Talk To Me 13:38, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
Stressy much, all templates in beta have been tested with backwords compatable data and the new usage in the alpha stage, beta is more for checking for little things and additional features before implementing - Abedecian ~ Flag-UK.jpg Talk to me and you get cake! Cake small.png 17:13, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
Uh... no they don't... have you already forgotten the "beta testing" the citizen template went through? lolz Icon-Australia.png - Jameson L. Tai talk/Deputy Marshal of the eAustralian DropBears 21:13, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
Are any of those "Not started" templates in need of starting? If one of those needs to be created then I can start working on it... -- Smiley.jpg Mr. Awesome | Talk | 23:17, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
I will be starting the next lot when the ones that are done are implemented. - Abedecian ~ Flag-UK.jpg Talk to me and you get cake! Cake small.png 01:59, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
The gamma templates look great, the only issue I see is that the categories do not match up to what is in the system right now and they need to. Or if you want to change the categories, please bring it up here. --QJ Lincoln Talk To Me 12:41, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
I don't think we need category "Military Units of X" because the current system works fine. However, we have two exceptions to the naming of these categories: United Kingdom Armed Forces and United States Armed Forces. However, both of them alone have more pages than all the other "Military of" categories together. Should be switch to "X Armed Forces" categories? I think we should come up with only one pattern, and I'm willing to edit all the pages accordingly whatever we decide.--Icon-Finland.png Kuhaa|sTalk to me! 08:45, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
The Military Units of X category should be changed to "Military of X" where X is country. This is the system we have in place. As far as the UK and USA. These pages will need to conform to the naming convention. Military of UK, Military of USA. People might bitch and moan, but for the sake of consistency, it needs to be done. It should automatically update once the template is implemented, correct? Then, Kuhaa, all we need to do is remove the old categories. --QJ Lincoln Talk To Me 14:53, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Organization

I think "Organization" template is ready to go. The only issue is that "Readership" doesn't make sense on this page. I assume you are referring to the newspaper. In that case this information belongs on the newspaper page. Remove "readership" and I think we are OK to implement. --QJ Lincoln Talk To Me 15:10, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Fixed the "Readership" issue. And Actually you are wrong Q J, it was the Economic section, just renamed it. Now it only needs implementing. I'll take a shower , and "try" to do that.If not , miniBill is there to halp me. With Sand-Love --Icon-Pakistan.png DanielDimow||Speak to me. 20:23, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
Ok, starting final tests --Mini "Template" Bill Icon-Italy.png bother me! 20:27, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
[1] --Mini "Template" Bill Icon-Italy.png bother me! 20:33, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
+∞, I really want to get these implemented so that I will get on with the rest, I have done as much testing as I can and just think we need the final push! - Abedecian ~ Flag-UK.jpg Talk to me and you get cake! Cake small.png 01:59, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Template Mad = Me, Muahahaha

A new template suggestion but don't know what to call it, I was thinking department. Its basically for ministries/departments, any thoughts? - Abedecian ~ Flag-UK.jpg Talk to me and you get cake! Cake small.png 02:11, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

What do you mean exactly? --Belea2008 21:05, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
Sorry, was a bit brief, a infobox for user created departments, which could be used for govermenal departments/ministries - Abedecian ~ Flag-UK.jpg Talk to me and you get cake! Cake small.png 22:09, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Establishing a unified template color scheme

After the discussion on IRC and then the complete disregard of the consensus formed, I'm creating a specialized section on discussing the following issues. If you want to respond, respond below my post and no not edit in between.

  1. Do we need to color-code the different types of templates?
  2. If we do, we need to establish a unified color scheme for the types of templates we use, mainly:
    1. Types of templates we'd be discussing individually to see if there's a need to establish color-coding:
      1. Citizen Template
      2. Party Template
      3. Newspaper Template
      4. Company Template
      5. Country Template
      6. Region Template
      7. Military unit Template
      8. Alliance Template
      9. Organization Template
    2. Then, we need to establish how much of this color coding we'd need to present in the template:
      1. Pick one or more of the following to color:
        1. Border shading
        2. Section header shading
        3. Template background shading
        4. Text color shading
      2. Test how different amounts of color affect aesthetics of article content, template readability, keeping the wiki "sleek"

Once we have all of this, we need to find consensus within this Wiki community to either accept or reject this system. Without this process, I'm proposing cease of color and shading changes on all existing templates not in userspace control. Icon-Australia.png - Jameson L. Tai talk/Deputy Marshal of the eAustralian DropBears 09:59, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

I personally like the idea of having coloured templates, but I don't really mind. Beside that, I think users should not be allowed to edit templates' colours in their pages --Mini "Template" Bill Icon-Italy.png bother me! 11:16, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
My two cents worth: Stop going nutso with the changes, folks. Im sick of people whinging to me? --Icon-Australia.png Timeoin| Say G'Day 11:37, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
I have absolutely no intention of implementing anyone's colour-schemes on my pages (I do remember the pink for girls idea, and I strongly against any such stupidity). Nor as a user would I want to have preset colours that some editors pick for me. --Quicksilver 15:48, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
No one "owns" pages... Just saying! --Belea2008 20:10, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
don't provoke me. at least. i dont expect any more from you. --Quicksilver 21:57, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Abedecian's proposal

Proposed Colours System using the offical icons - Abedecian ~ Flag-UK.jpg Talk to me and you get cake! Cake small.png 12:42, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

"Official icons" - what are those? --Belea2008 21:14, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
The ones from the eRepublik Wiki Tutorial I'm guessing. Icon-Australia.png - Jameson L. Tai talk/Deputy Marshal of the eAustralian DropBears 21:24, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
-- Abedecian ~ Flag-UK.jpg Talk to me and you get cake! Cake small.png 21:33, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
If you look at the revisions of all my tempaltes, you will see the colour changes in action before I reverted them - Abedecian ~ Flag-UK.jpg Talk to me and you get cake! Cake small.png 22:01, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
Now that I've acknowledged this, here are my reasons why I do not like how he's using these color schemes. First of all, exactly where we're using these colors have still not been defined. My original request to bring us together on this issue at eRepublik:Bar/Debate 9#Establishing a unified template color scheme clearly asked to define where in these templates we should be recoloring. We have not done that. Realistically, the "Erepublik Blue" that has been used in the revised citizen template implemented last month is far less intrusive, but even then it intrudes the reading experience as is. If a color scheme as sharp as these darker, sharper purple (just considering citizen templates at the moment before I get carried away with the others for now), it brings way too much emphasis to the infobox and draws readers away from the actual content of the article. An infobox is supposed to assist with giving brief highlights of basic general information, not replace the entire article's content with an infobox. The point is the intrusive nature of these colors affect how we read articles, which negatively impacts editors on here who spend the time editing article content. Shading the templates' border is distracting enough, the background would make it look completely hideous. Please also note that before this issue was brought to light, Abedecian attempted to unilaterally change the citizen template to this awkwardly sharp purple color before. Reference the following previous edits that I had to revert just last week:
While I object with how Abedecian has handled the situation, he has allowed us to proceed with discussion here. Since posting on this talk page to stop randomly changing template colors he has allowed us to discuss these important points. However, he has not changed a single part of his proposal, I cannot agree to support his proposal without him providing alternative proposals that addresses my concerns. Icon-Australia.png - Jameson L. Tai talk/Deputy Marshal of the eAustralian DropBears 16:08, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Resolution

General Consensus - Changing colors are nifty, but brings a whole new set of problems, discussions, preferences, angst. Lets use the colors in the Citizen Template (eRepublik blue) and be done with it.
Language: the wiki has used the Americanized spellings words (ex. organization) from the very beginning. This matches how the game is in English. The wiki will continue to use American English spellings in templates and on official game pages. (If the game used British English, we would do the same.) However, we do not force people to conform to American English in the writing of wiki pages.

No changes should be made to ANY of these universal templates in the Template namespace UNTIL decisions are made here. --QJ Lincoln Talk To Me 17:15, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
+1 on that and 0 on the proposed color scheme, where 0 means: implement templates now, think about color later --Mini "Template" Bill Icon-Italy.png bother me!
Regarding language, please make sure things are consistent. Not that we use "colour" and "color" in the same article or in different places of the game. That would look silly. --Belea2008 20:10, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
0 I like MiniBill's proposal. I don't think having a unified color scheme is important. However, I do think the proposed color is a good choice. I wouldn't mind having that color for everything or having different colors for different topics, like here, for instance. -- Smiley.jpg Mr. Awesome | Talk | 20:58, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
+1 on the not implementing that color-scheme, and I am not going to learn American English even if you kick me out of here too. --Quicksilver 22:09, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
DID YOU SEE THE RESOLUTION? TEMPLATE WILL BE COLORED/STYLED like the original citizen template, the unobtrusive, eRepublik blue from AgentChieftain's template and in the eBox. Nothing complicated. Nothing crazy. Issue closed. Lets fucking move on. --QJ Lincoln Talk To Me 22:14, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
+1 for Mini Bill's idea about implementing the new templates first --Icon-Australia.png Timeoin| Say G'Day 01:37, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

At last, I never actually liked the idea of different colours in the first place, just wanted to get the issue resolved. - Abedecian ~ Flag-UK.jpg Talk to me and you get cake! Cake small.png 01:41, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

+1 for Abedecian for being evil enough to make us go through that whole voting process --Icon-Australia.png Timeoin| Say G'Day 04:09, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

-1 for QJ Lincoln shouting down people incoherently when in the bar editors are asked to vote here about the matter. If it is resolved already, then don't ask to vote.--Quicksilver 05:48, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Oh Quicksilver, seriously, can you stop instigating? --QJ Lincoln Talk To Me 12:15, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

0 I'm just here to vote no on Abedecian's proposal. The rest I'm neutral on. Icon-Australia.png - Jameson L. Tai talk/Deputy Marshal of the eAustralian DropBears 06:04, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

QJ Lincoln you accuse me of instigating? Why don't you stop and check what YOU have said? --Quicksilver 13:01, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
Have a nice trip --Mini "Template" Bill Icon-Italy.png bother me! 14:02, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Official proposal of template implementation

Proposal to implement:

Abedecian ~ Flag-UK.jpg Talk to me and you get cake! Cake small.png 21:20, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

As I've mentioned above, until eRepublik:Bar#Establishing a unified template color scheme is resolved, implementing new color schemes on any template outside of userspace should not done until we reach consensus. However, you may remove the colors and use the standard gray border, white background until this is resolved barring any other syntax or upgrade incompatibilities. Icon-Australia.png - Jameson L. Tai talk/Deputy Marshal of the eAustralian DropBears 21:26, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
I will undo the colour changes back to the same as the citizen template - Abedecian ~ Flag-UK.jpg Talk to me and you get cake! Cake small.png 22:02, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
Can we change the header on all of these that say "Social" (except on the citizen page maybe) to say "Information" or "Basic Information" ?--QJ Lincoln Talk To Me 13:33, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
Agreed... Social seems awkward. General or General Information works as well. Icon-Australia.png - Jameson L. Tai talk/Deputy Marshal of the eAustralian DropBears 14:53, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
Good pont, shall change it to General Information - Abedecian ~ Flag-UK.jpg Talk to me and you get cake! Cake small.png 16:15, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
As far as I can see, these templates are ready for implementation. However there needs to be a few changes.
  1. Newspaper template - should be categorized as "Media of Country" as it is now. (Or do you want to redo all of the categories and pages in them? This is a serious question, considering the game entities are Newspapers)
  2. A note needs to be placed on all templates that the wiki uses "USA and UK" for those countries. Once again if you want to change all of the pages categorized as UK that is up to you.

--QJ Lincoln Talk To Me 17:54, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Template Design APRIL 2010

These are two discussions had about design. We need to come up with a final decision and prototypes for the look of new templates. --QJ Lincoln Talk To Me 18:43, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

So what I wanted to propose is [this(bottom-right)] & [this] What I mean is , there should be different color themes for the different templates, color is probably easiest thing to recognize something in the first place.
(Gray , aha , its an organization & etc...) Now the user-template that is now , is ok, the military you can see above , at least my proposal , I tried to make it look like camouflage or so.
We need to think of the others , and this table [1st link] could be attached to the main templates , so that you can switch easily. [Yes I've taken it from some1 , no need to tell me that.]
Any thoughts , criticism , feedback are welcomed. --Icon-Pakistan.png DanielDimow||Speak to me. 13:23, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
I just want to see the new templates implemented. I agree with any colors "approved" by QJ. --Belea2008 13:38, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
Citizen template should be fabulous pink. ;) --~✭βƓЪ✭~ 21:04, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

Fixing Old Templates

I will say again that making the Citizen template modular to include some of the Bio ideas is the best thing we can do. But we still need to think about many other generic templates that we are using. For instance the region, country, newspaper templates; they are out of date are not all formatted in the same way. I think we should update these templates. Let's get some ideas together on what we should change. Here are some of my suggestions:

  1. Change the background
  2. Make the top headings larger and have links so that we don't need integration
  3. Get rid of some of the horizontal lines
  4. Get rid of the pieces that V1 does not have like number of soldiers/average strength

-- Smiley.jpg Mr. Awesome | Talk | 08:31, 29 January 2009 (PST)

  1. I'm curious to see what everyone else thinks of MiniBill's proposed color scheme here. Personally, I don't like the purple, but I do favor the light-blue-on-white.
  2. How much larger do you think they should be? I didn't think there was really a problem with this, but I'd like to see how much bigger you'd like it
  3. I haven't really seen them used more than twice, can you show an example?
  4. Average strength is still available, but what I've heard is that Admin wants to keep some aspects of the templates for historical purposes. It might be possible to mark these sections as "historical" or something, though, but it depends on what is being marked.
- –Dr. AgentChieftain Flag of the Crescent and Star PPP! B / C / D / F / P / S 08:48, 29 January 2009 (PST)
  1. Personally, I don't like headers at all, but that doesn't seem to be the case with most other people so I guess I'll just have to bite my tongue on that and go with whatever everyone else likes.
  2. The top headings should be as large as they are on Template:Biography (font-size:150%).
  3. I think that the only place you need a horizontal line is between the top heading and the picture: London - they're just everywhere
  4. I was talking about the average strength on the region template
  • That is a good idea. I can't imagine what we would keep historical: give some examples.

-- Smiley.jpg Mr. Awesome | Talk | 09:12, 29 January 2009 (PST)

  1. What if I were able to implement this functionality into the template?
  2. I thought I actually nabbed this one a while back. Good catch.
  3. {{Region}} seems to be a prime example of what needs to be changed, since it has both a normal-sized top heading and poor composition.
  4. Ah, you're right, that definitely should be removed. I recall Admin wanting to keep Mayors in there somewhere.
- –Dr. AgentChieftain Flag of the Crescent and Star PPP! B / C / D / F / P / S 09:34, 29 January 2009 (PST)
  1. I like headings, but they weren't really "carefully chosen", I just put them a bit ago, so they're ready to be changed
  2. I'm ok with that
  3. Agreed on that
  4. Agreed too, if Admin will reintroduce them we will also :)
--Mini "Template boy" Bill Italian in the deep core have a biscuit 08:04, 30 January 2009 (PST)

Template style

As you may or may not know, AgentChieftain has been busy working on User:AgentChieftain/Sandbox/Template:Citizen.

Now the question is whether you think we should adopt the new border style and colour scheme, as shown in his template, or should we stick to the ol' grey boxes of yore?--~✭βƓЪ✭~ 13:31, 8 February 2009 (PST)

+1 I think it looks pwerty :3 --~✭βƓЪ✭~ 13:31, 8 February 2009 (PST)
+1 Quite pwerty --Mini "Template boy" Bill Italian in the deep core have a biscuit 13:32, 8 February 2009 (PST)
+1 In the words of Kool Aid, "Oh Yeah!" -- Smiley.jpg Mr. Awesome | Talk | 13:42, 8 February 2009 (PST)
+1 It is so awesome. Pierric Bross 23:14, 8 February 2009 (PST
+1 Ooh, it is pretty! Maybe the employee font should be smaller? --Kalamarko92 17:37, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Speaking of style, Martin23230 has an interesting concept at the bottom his sandbox: separate color schemes. Although I might want to adjust his choices a bit, I'm in favor of having different boxes in different colors to make them easier to distinguish. The alternative to this would be to keep the "rounded blue scheme" for every template in this manner. What do you all think? - –Dr. AgentChieftain Flag of the Crescent and Star PPP! B / C / D / F / P / S 00:40, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

0 --Geo "Talk Pages" Belea 07:31, 20 March 2009 (UTC
I have to say, I like what Martin has done. +1, square or rounded corners I really don't care. I care more about color, readability, and ease of use for the person using the template. --QJ Lincoln Talk To Me 18:30, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
+1 Yo, I can dig the color changes. Template:EDSig
Seriously? Using a huge freaking signature on wiki?! Have you no shame or are you overcompensating? - Jameson L. Tai talk/Paramilitary Wing Director of the Church of Valkyrie 02:19, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
+1 to Estaban for reviving a vote that was resolved over a year ago. --Icon-Australia.png Timeoin|Say G'Day 02:27, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
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