eRepublik Official Wiki:Suggest/Bring back discussions to forum

So bring back discussions to forum where they belong from beginning. Forum is better platform for discussions and more suitable then wiki. Wiki is more for giving facts and info about the game... Btw, not all citizens know how to use wiki... If you moved from forum to wiki because citizens are destroying forum (because it's as you say it 'admins place') this wont solve that problem.

Real problem is in disrespecting players by erepublik team (not informing citizens on time about changes, doing changes every few days or weeks, don't listening ideas for improving of the game, deleting their posts and banning them without warning and with no possibility of appeal...)

Solution is in fixing all things stated here and in more friendly approach to players - they are playing this game because they love it and most of them invested their free time and sometimes even money for promoting it and making it better place, so at least they deserve same respect and regardnes... That will lead to more friendly environment, more retention and maybe even bring back old players that left the game because of stated issues.

-- Dalibor / ^Talk 11:58, 26 May 2011 (PDT)

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+1 Forum is dead  :/ -- Hurkancs _{Talk page / Hurkancs} 12:52, 26 May 2011 (PDT)

0 I do agree with You that not many people know about the wiki and this is kind of running away from the "problems", however I personally think if citizens would respect the forum in a way of respecting the rules there wouldn't be any problems like that. Now even there is just 1 section (Suggestions & Feedback) only 20% of threads are suggestions, rest of them are completely not to do with the suggestions. Another thing is they way people write on the forums: rage, shout, insult and this has been a problem for a longer while now. --" Gucio16" 08:49, 27 May 2011 (PDT)

Does forum has moderators? Oh, yeah ^^ well , moderators should solve rage, shout, insult nabz ^^-- Hurkancs _{Talk page / Hurkancs} 13:07, 26 May 2011 (PDT)

-1 This is an excellent idea, this will bring more people to the wiki, meaning people can update more country pages, yay! -- Mikhail Alexander 19:28, 26 May 2011 (PDT)

I don't think it of that way, it will bring more trolls and spamming to wiki :\ -- Grzechooo ^{drop a line} 05:34, 27 May 2011 (PDT)

+1 -- Grzechooo ^{drop a line} 05:34, 27 May 2011 (PDT)

0 I have been thinking about this. But I don't really know which one is better, although I am leaning to that it is a good idea that it is on the wiki. Why? Some reasons: 1] Most of the people on wiki are active, experienced, nice, smart people. They can come up with good ideas and good dissucions. Forums are a messy place with a bunch of kids writing "signed" all the time, with no proper disscusion or debates. 2] Ideas and suggestions can not be "deleted" here as it will always stay in the history, so no real censorship! 3] The active sysops here are much better than the forum moderators. 4] People with good ideas will bother to register and write their ideas here. I do not think trolls will come here, but there is a possibilty, on the other hand trolls can be handled with by the good active sysops we have here. The new users can also then improve the wiki. Negative things are that: It is much harder to discuss here in my opinion. Forums have a much better layout. There is also a small risk that this wiki will be invaded by trolls, but I see that as a small.

Two more things: Perhaps one of the reason they are attempting to completely remove forum is because of the cost. If I remember correctly it is a vBulletin forum - and those cost a lot, maybe not for a company, but I do not know how big Erepublik is. Maybe they are having a hard time and want to remove all extra costs. Wiki is free as far as I know. Another thing is that I hope by moving it here, they will listen more to the people, discuss more with the people (which I doubt).--Aryamehr talk 05:46, 27 May 2011 (PDT)

Another negative thing is that not many will participate and thus not many replies. compare with the forums when you quickly gwt a ton of replies. --Aryamehr talk 14:03, 27 May 2011 (PDT)

Yes, Wiki soft is free, and vBulletin isn't free, but they can always change it to phpBB, can't they? (I think there's some way of importing vBulletin to phpBB) -- Grzechooo ^{drop a line} 04:46, 28 May 2011 (PDT)

After googling for 2 seconds I found solution how to import vBUlletin to phpBB, but I think they just don't care, sadly, wiki and forum/suggestion site should be two different places.Garda Sabijac 11:37, 29 May 2011 (PDT)

+1 This is extremely user-hostile environment. Forum-style structure was probably created because some reason, wasnt it? Red Duck

-1 A few answers:

• Will anyone of from the team respond there at all? - Yes, me in the beginning and we'll see if, with time, it is constructive to bring the "game design guys" in these discussions.
• If yes, will we get good answers or answers that say nothing? - I'll do my best to not give copy paste answers. Instead of telling you guys that "I forwarded your idea to...", I can talk directly with the key people to see if an idea is doable or not, if we will invest resources in it or not. Also, I will never have an estimation when I will get back to a topic with a clear answer (after all, sometimes, people have higher priorities than talking with me :D). Also, there will be some cases in which you will not like the answers - as in, some ideas, although they are "cool" and "interesting", they are not usable. I'll do my best to explain what is "wrong" with these ones.
• What is the idea behind it? What's the point? (Read the first suggestion to understand what I mean) - Same as eRepublik Insider; same as having a better forum - civilized public discussions between eRepublik team members and citizens of the New World.
• Any radical changes with this? Perhaps more communication? - I think that setting the first goal to provide a two way public communication channel - one that "works" - is achievable.

--Belea2008 08:56, 31 May 2011 (PDT)

But you're avoiding one of the main questions: Why is this on the wiki, and not on the forum where it should be?.

All citizens have forum accounts, but must register separately on the wiki just to suggest stuff to the game that they play? That's pretty silly :/ • John F. Baker (Talk | Contribs) • 12:00, 31 May 2011 (PDT)

I'm not convinced that the forum "should" be the place for these kind of discussions. For example, you consider it an advantage that all citizens have forum accounts, while I consider it a disadvantage. What feedback/suggestions a new citizen can bring? (I think/she he should play the game before signing or not signing in a thread.) What valid feedback/suggestions a penalized citizen can bring? (The first intention is to write - kind of - not constructive ideas addressed to the team.) And so on... from my point of view, not all citizens are informed enough and/or objective enough to participate in these discussions.

In the end, it remains the question - why do we not improve the forum then? We did - development, design, moderation, etc. - all invested towards what exactly? With what results? Only to find out that having only one section is the most constructive and manageable solution for the moment. I do not wish to support the investment of additional resources without having any guarantees about the results (especially, if the past investments only resulted in having a "thinner" forum).

Thus, from my point of view, both areas (this section in the Wiki and the only remaining section in the Forum) will be used for public communication. No resources (except moderation/communication) will be invested in any of them until the communication improves in at least one of them.

Also, no one is "forced" to use this section here. You can still use the forum, you can still use the contact page. One thing I (we) learned from the "removal" of the eRepublik Insider is that "moving discussions" to another platform without giving options, without making comparisons between the "old system" and the "new system" brings resentments and the "new shiny communication method" will start not so "shiny".

I love this game, I'm very passionate about it. I want it to flourish/to evolve. I truly believe that evolution comes from both citizens and team members. Not as separate groups, but engaged in civilized discussions. We can agree that a citizen, any citizen, will not want to be involved in a discussion, any type of discussion, if he/she does not feel that the other side is listening.

One one side (the team's), copy paste answers do not help, vague and/or succinct answers do not explain/do not offer information. On the other side, there are a few techniques used by citizens which cannot be described as "civilized" or "constructive". That is all!

--Belea2008 09:32, 1 June 2011 (PDT)

+1 Oh hello, I, an active player, had no idea this was here. Neither does anyone else. Even if they do, this is a pain in the ass to use, and is honestly just a way to reduce feedback. Out of all the horrible recent changes lately, and there have been many, this is quite possibly the worst. --Vincent Garibaldi

+1 Wiki software is not built and programmed to be a discussion place. If you know a bit you would know that discussion places have always been platforms where the possibility of easy interaction between parts is the strong point. That's why we had mail-lists, irc, message boards (aka forums) depending on the necessity of a faster/permanent way to discuss arguments. Wiki isn't this, is a platform where you share knoweledge that has been already discussed or require minimum discussion (it's so fun to wait 45 secs to see the wiki server responding just to add a reply), so not a medium for discussion about the evolution of a game which gameplay changes weekly and generate a gigantic amount of feedback.

In relation to some Belea's point:

all citizens have forum accounts Yes it's an advantage since anyone can easily access the platform (so every idea can storm in), on the other hand you can, easily, create different discussion sections based on required experience level to discuss a certain argument

What feedback/suggestions a new citizen can bring? the kind of feedback that a seasoned player cannot give anymore, about the way the game has evolved in respect to the first crucial days

What valid feedback/suggestions a penalized citizen can bring? the kind of feedback that a less critic player cannot give, not always the good ideas come from the adoring masses but only from key excluded citizens living in theyr tubs ;)

development, design, moderation considering that the development is made by vBB company and the design is a basic theme, not much resources have been invested (cosidering that moderation is a player based project). In reality much more should've been done, creating groups of discussions with subforums per area and many more things. There are voluntary run forums in the world, well managed, with 10^6 times discussion than yours and they run just fine (personal experience).

if he/she does not feel that the other side is listening that's a defect on the staff part, citizens, by playing daily, always listen. On the other part staff rarely gives feedback on citizens ideas.

--Furio ^"UBW" 07:39, 3 June 2011 (PDT)

Results are already shown, we can see tons of people discussing here on wiki ^^ hell yeah, WIN WIN WIN, ka ching ^^ -- Hurkancs _{Talk page / Hurkancs} 14:52, 10 June 2011 (PDT)

http://wiki.erepublik.com/index.php?title=eRepublik:Suggest&action=history Hai i'm the history file showing you that ppl editing are always the same. Please recalibrate your scale :D --Furio ^"UBW" 07:08, 11 June 2011 (PDT)