Talk:Constitution of Greece

Good work. --Aryamehr talk 00:19, 22 July 2008 (BST)

Good work 2! Where I can find it in the forums? --Belea2008 chew the fat 11:10, 22 July 2008 (BST)

It can be found here John Daker | | Talk 11:52, 22 July 2008 (BST)

Admin feedback

In the name of the Holy and Consubstantial and Indivisible Trinity
THE CONGRESS OF THE HELLENES RESOLVES

Article I - Basic Provisions

Section I - Form of Government

Clause I - Basis of Government

I. The form of government of Greece shall be a congressional republic, which a President of the Republic shall lead.

II. Popular sovereignty shall be the foundation of government.

III. All powers of government shall be directed by the People and serve the interests of the People and Nation.

IV. This Constitution shall be the highest law of Greece and shall be added upon and revised as necessary to ensure the successful operation of the Government.

Clause II - Obligations of Government

I. The protection of the rights and liberties of the People of Greece shall be the fundamental obligation of government.

II. To ensure the protection of the Will of the People, Government shall prepare and hold elections for President of the Republic on the first of each month, and local Government shall prepare and hold elections for Mayor on the twentieth of each month.

Section II - Terms Defined

Clause III - Terms Defined

I. “Government” is defined as an institution, composed of an elected President of the Republic (herein “President of the Republic”, “President”) and Congress, elected Mayors, and other advisors and councilors appointed as the President, Mayors, and Congress see fit within the bounds of law.

II. “Person” is defined as any human being having reached the age of majority.

a. “People” is defined as a number of Persons.

b. “People of Greece”, “Citizens of Greece”, and other variations thereof are defined as those People living in and holding citizenship in Greece.

III. “State” is defined as any foreign body, holding territory, possessing a population and Government, and having sovereignty within its territory.

IV. “Majority” is defined as a simple majority of the body described.

V. “Supermajority” is defined as two-thirds of all members of Congress.

VI. “Term”, with regard to Presidents, Mayors, and members of Congress, is defined as the one-month period during which an elected official holds office.

VII. “Quorum” is defined as half the number of Congressmen, rounded to the nearest whole number, added by one.

Article II - Individual and Social Rights and Liberties

Clause IV - Basic Provisions

I. The Government of Greece shall not establish, provide for the support of, or enforce any directive, law, statute, agency, or company that deprives the People of Greece of any right or liberty described in this article.

II. If Government shall violate clause 3.1, the People of Greece shall have the duty and responsibility to resist any such act of Government.

• Clause 3.1 is a definition, it cannot be violated. We think you wanted to say "Clause 5". --Admin 21:17, 16 August 2008 (BST)
• Clause 4.2 reads as such in the earliest revision I have so I think it was put in to prevent the Government from circumventing Clause 3.1 by changing the composition of Government from how it is defined in the Constitution. It's not meant to be Clause 5 because that protection is listed elsewhere. John Daker | | Talk 22:05, 16 August 2008 (BST)

Clause V - Rights and Liberties

I. All men and women of Greece shall be equal before the law, and no provision shall benefit one person over another based on race, creed, color, national origin, sex, political affiliation, or beliefs.

II. It shall be the right of all People of Greece to conduct their lives and personality to their desires, to pursue happiness, to participate in the social, economic, and political spheres of Greece, and to live freely within the bounds of law.

III. The People of Greece shall have the right to assemble peaceably and associate with one another on any basis.

a. Assemblies of the People of Greece are extended the same rights as are extended to Greek Citizens alone.

IV. Every citizen of Greece capable of bearing arms shall have the right to do so and shall contribute to the defense of Greece shall it be required.

V. Every Person shall have the right to disseminate his or her thoughts freely in any manner allowed by law.

Clause VI - Exceptions

I. Persons found guilty of crimes against Greece by the Congress may not hold political office of any nature within Greece.

• What are these crimes against Greece and how the Congress declares someone guilty of crimes against Greece? --Admin 21:17, 16 August 2008 (BST)
• That was intended to be decided on a case-by-case basis by the Congress, because there is no way we will be able to list every possible "crime against Greece" in this document. Congress will declare someone guilty by holding a vote which can be handled on our offsite forums or in a contract since there is no game mechanic for it. John Daker | | Talk 22:05, 16 August 2008 (BST)

Article III - Organization and Functions of Government

Section I - Organization

Clause VII - Government Structure

I. Government shall be composed of a Congress and led by a President of the Republic.

• This Clause contradicts Clause 3.1. --Admin 21:17, 16 August 2008 (BST)
• So it does. I have bolded a suggested change. John Daker | | Talk 22:05, 16 August 2008 (BST)

Clause VIII - President of the Republic

I. The People of Greece shall elect the President of the Republic

II. The election of a President shall last for a full term.

Clause IX - Congress

I. The People of Greece shall elect members of Congress.

II. The election of a member of Congress shall last for a full term.

III. Following its selection, Congress shall elect one member, by simple majority, to serve as Speaker of the Congress.

• How the election of the Speaker of the Congress is made? What are his responsabilities? --Admin 21:17, 16 August 2008 (BST)
• All Congressmen are able to access a private subforum of the official Greek forums and can hold all Congressional votes there. The Speaker's only real purpose is to serve as President if the President is banned or impeached, as declared in Clause 14.b.ii. John Daker | | Talk 22:05, 16 August 2008 (BST)

Section II - Functions of Government

Clause X - Functions of the President

I. The President of the Republic shall have the power to suggest legislation to Congress.

II. The President is obligated to uphold the Constitution of Greece above all other laws, statutes, and orders.

• Even above the Erepublik Rules or the Terms of Service? We noticed these are not stated anywhere in this Constitution. --Admin 21:17, 16 August 2008 (BST)
• The Rules and TOS are not "laws, statutes, and orders". They are rules and terms of service of this game and naturally supercede this Constitution. Clause 10.2 only requires that the President uphold the Constitution over all other laws, etc. passed in Greece. It's here to prevent the President from suggesting and having passed a law that will allow him to do something unconstitutional. John Daker | | Talk 22:05, 16 August 2008 (BST)

III. The President shall have the power to uphold all laws, statutes, and orders passed by Congress.

IV. The President shall have the power to assemble a Cabinet of advisors and officials to assist with the administration of the Government.

V. The President shall have the power to engage in diplomacy with foreign States and to appoint diplomats.

a. The President shall have the power to declare Persons, including foreign diplomats, personae non gratae, and shall have the power to recall from any State any Greek Person or diplomat so declared.

VI. The President shall have the power to establish and enforce trade agreements.

VII. The President may ask Congress, in cases of clear and present danger to Greece or Greek People abroad or to allies of Greece, to issue a declaration of War against a foreign State.

a. The President may not wage war without supermajority approval by Congress.

b. In case of a foreign State’s declaration of war against Greece, the President may direct soldiers and wage a defensive war without Congressional approval.

VIII. The President shall have no powers other than those explicitly granted to him by the Constitution. John Daker | | Talk 22:05, 16 August 2008 (BST)

• What happens in situations that are not stipulated in this Constitution or in any other law? Who takes decisions in these cases? --Admin 21:17, 16 August 2008 (BST)
• The Congress is empowered to make any decision they need to through Clause 11.9. The President is rather limited in power because of our experience with Capelli King. John Daker | | Talk 22:05, 16 August 2008 (BST)

Clause XI - Functions of Congress

I. Congress shall debate and vote to enact or reject legislation suggested by the President.

II. Congress shall have the power to debate and vote to enact or reject legislation suggested by members of Congress.

III. Congress shall have the power to, with a majority vote, recall officials from the President’s Cabinet.

IV. Congress shall have the power to approve all treaties that concern Greece.

V. Congress shall have the power to, in cases of clear and present danger to Greece or Greek People abroad or allies of Greece, issue a declaration of War against a foreign State.

a. All declarations of War must be approved by a supermajority of Congress.

VI. Congress shall have the power to demand the printing and issuance of currency.

a. Currency printed by the Government shall be legal tender for all debts, public and private.

b. All legislation concerning the power to print and issue currency must be approved by a supermajority of Congress.

i. In cases when a supermajority cannot be reached, the legislation shall be rejected.

VII. Congress shall have the power to levy taxes on industry, imports, sales, and income.

VIII. Congress shall have the power to make addenda to this Constitution.

• How this addenda will be made and voted? --Admin 21:17, 16 August 2008 (BST)
• The Congress can discuss and draft any addenda on our offsite forums and then present the final revision in Contracts where they can sign it to have it be accepted. That's how this Constitution was written. John Daker | | Talk 22:05, 16 August 2008 (BST)

IX. Congress shall have the power to make laws or statutes that shall be necessary and proper for the execution of the foregoing powers.

LAW SYSTEM
Who creates laws?
How this laws are voted?
Who will be "judges" of this law? (Here we suggest creating an apolitical judicial system based on a group of Citizens that take decisions if a person is guilty or not and Admin only enforces the final decision.)
Who enforces these laws?
How these laws are enforced?
--Admin 21:17, 16 August 2008 (BST)

• Who creates: Congress, as it says in clause 11.9. How voted: As detailed in my note under Clause 11.8. Who enforces: That would depend on what the law says. If it's a law declaring Christmas to be August 1, that doesn't really need enforced. If it's a law requiring admin attention, then it would be the admins. How enforced: Again, it depends on the law. Likely most laws will have to be enforced by the admins, but I can't say what Congress wil pass. John Daker | | Talk 22:05, 16 August 2008 (BST)

Clause XII - Restrictions

I. The President and Congress shall not suggest legislation that would violate the Constitution.

a. Any legislation that violates the Constitution shall not be required to be enforced by any body.

II. Congress must make all legislation brought before it public prior to holding a vote.

• Where this legislation is made public? --Admin 21:17, 16 August 2008 (BST)
• I'll add a section mandating that the Speaker creates a Congressional newspaper to make all Congressional votes, etc. public. John Daker | | Talk 22:05, 16 August 2008 (BST)

a. The People of Greece, if finding fault with an article of legislation, may petition Congress to reject that article of legislation.

i. If one-tenth of Greece’s population signs a petition in opposition of an article of legislation, an open referendum must be held to enact or reject that article of legislation.

• How referendums are held and voted? --Admin 21:17, 16 August 2008 (BST)
• Spain seems to handle it fairly well by using the Politics board for their referenda. Greek citizens will vote in a thread and then the votes will be tallied. John Daker | | Talk 22:05, 16 August 2008 (BST)

III. Congress must make the votes of its members public.

• Where these votes will be made public? --Admin 21:17, 16 August 2008 (BST)
• See the note for Clause 12.2. John Daker | | Talk 22:05, 16 August 2008 (BST)

IV. Congress must hold quorum to vote on legislation.

a. The President may compel members of Congress to appear on the floor in the absence of a quorum.

V. Members of Congress may serve no more than three consecutive terms.

• This cannot be enforced, because it is in the rights of party presidents to nominate the people they want for the Congress. --Admin 21:17, 16 August 2008 (BST)
• See below. John Daker | | Talk 22:05, 16 August 2008 (BST)

VI. A President of the Republic may serve no more than four consecutive terms.

• If Clause 12.5 is unable to be enforced then by extension Clause 12.6 cannot be enforced and both should be struck from the text. John Daker | | Talk 22:05, 16 August 2008 (BST)

Article IV - Special Provisions

Clause XIII - Constitutional Addenda

I. Addenda to the Constitution may not revise or alter the meanings of Clauses 1 through 5, 10.7, 11.5, 11.6, 12.1, 12.2, 13, or 14.

a. Addenda to the Constitution may not contradict the aforementioned Clauses.

II. Addenda to the Constitution must be approved by a supermajority of Congress to be enacted.

a. Failure to achieve supermajority will result in the addendum being rejected.

Clause XIV - Lawful Resistance and Impeachment

I. Impeachment of a President who violates this Constitution shall be made possible by a vote of the Congress.

a. A supermajority of Congress must vote to impeach for the impeachment process to proceed.

b. Once a President has been impeached, it shall be the duty of the Congress to provide evidence of a violation of the Constitution.

i. If Congress shall be unable to provide evidence of such a violation, the impeached President shall resume his duties as outlined in Clause X.

ii. If Congress is able to provide such evidence and finds the evidence substantial and damning, the impeached President shall be removed from office and the Speaker of the Congress shall assume the duties of President until an election can be held.

• This will be available when V1 is launched. --Admin 21:17, 16 August 2008 (BST)
• It's listed to allow people to declare resistances Constitutionally valid or invalid, which would determine which government ultimately succeeds the Hellenic Republic. John Daker | | Talk 22:05, 16 August 2008 (BST)

Clause XV - Scorched Earth Prevention Provisions

I. Declarations of War may not be made within five days of a Presidential election.

a. Declarations of War of a defensive nature may be made following a declaration of War against Greece within five days of a Presidential election.

• Who decides if the Declaration of War is of defensive matter? --Admin 21:17, 16 August 2008 (BST)
• If someone declares war on Greece, then Greece is fighting a defensive war. If Greece declares war, then Greece is fighting an offensive war. It depends on who makes the first declaration. John Daker | | Talk 22:05, 16 August 2008 (BST)

II. Congressional powers outlined in Clause 11.6 shall be suspended during the week leading up to a Presidential election.

III. Congress must approve all withdrawals from the national treasury by supermajority.

a. No more than one hundred gold, in total, may be withdrawn from the national treasury in the week leading up to a Presidential election.

• In order to prevent stealing from treasury you have 2 solutions:

1. The president cannot withdraw money and Gold from the treasury without the Congress approval.
2. The president cannot withdraw no more that than a maximum amount of money and Gold from the treasury.

• In the form you wrote, the president can steal money and Gold in his first 3 weeks of his mandate.

--Admin 21:17, 16 August 2008 (BST)

• I realize that, and it is a weakness. However, the form written prevents the specific policy we saw when the GRR took power, which was Capelli King realizing in the last week that he wouldn't be able to hold power and choosing to ruin Greece. John Daker | | Talk 22:05, 16 August 2008 (BST)

• Also, you have to write a separate Clause about Admin involvement (enforcing of this Constitution). --Admin 21:17, 16 August 2008 (BST)
• Can do. John Daker | | Talk 22:05, 16 August 2008 (BST)