Talk:Monsieur Guillontine
Contents
First Time Being the President of eBelgium
"Ward De Bever and splashdog showed strong signs of discontent over Jofroi's loss. They soon started an impeachment without a discussion." ...
Can you please unbias this, and eventually provide reference? Suggesting that we (he started the impeachment, not me) acted as 'sore losers' is not objective. A forum discussion is not needed for critical decisions, this is Congress in-game executive power. Ward De Bever 09:10, 12 September 2011 (PDT)
- It doesn't necessarily mean that the sentence above has to be agreed upon by you. Its his opinion of the matter and his page, not yours. --
Mikhail Alexander 23:16, 12 September 2011 (PDT)
- Thank you Sampo for your moderation. Mikhail, may I refer you to the guideline on ownership of articles? It's not about opinions here, but about facts. Ward De Bever 05:33, 13 September 2011 (PDT)
- I am quite aware of the rules and regulations used to run the wiki, I wouldn't have gotten to where I am today if I hadn't. I'm aware no one owns a page and it shared by all but each person who has his own page technically does own their own page as it is about themselves. -- Mikhail Alexander 23:33, 13 September 2011 (PDT)
- Being the owner of a page does not give that person the right to slander others. I don't want to change MG (vietDragon)'s opinions, only the facts he states about me and others. Splashdog started the impeachment. His reasons to do so should be found on his page, not yours, or in Splashdog's newspaper. I did not ally with splashdog on launching that impeachment. Please stop this bias. Giving the impression that I afterwards supported the impeachment because I would be 'discontended over a loss' or so is simply subjective. Such phrase should at least start with 'It's the personal opinion of the writer of this article that ...' - Ward De Bever 00:11, 14 September 2011 (PDT)
- I am quite aware of the rules and regulations used to run the wiki, I wouldn't have gotten to where I am today if I hadn't. I'm aware no one owns a page and it shared by all but each person who has his own page technically does own their own page as it is about themselves. --
- Thank you Sampo for your moderation. Mikhail, may I refer you to the guideline on ownership of articles? It's not about opinions here, but about facts. Ward De Bever 05:33, 13 September 2011 (PDT)
"Soon after the impeachment failed, NLSP, who was also a strong supporter of Jofroi, started a Supreme Court case against Monsieur Guillontine for supposedly helping Irish citizens become Belgian citizens to not only "steal" votes, but also help them politically-take-over Belgium. " is totally wrong. People who has access to the eBelgium forum and have the correct mask, can clearly see in http://ebelgium.forumotion.net/t4173-case-2011-007-requesting-type-a-investigation that NLSP didn't started a case, but requested an investigation. Also that there is in that request no word about nationality, stealing votes, potential PTO's, but only about not following immigration procedure. This is pure slander and not tolerable. I would also say, that it should be mentioned that Monsieur Guillontine is one of the persons targeted with that request to increase the necessary context. NLSP
References needed
Following phrase needs references (post them here)
| “ Jofroi, convinced Hollenboer to step down as a running candidate ” | |
| (Article)
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- http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/ula-news-vote-jofroi--1854560/1/20 (this decision was enforced by the PP after a private poll on the internal ULA forum - Ward De Bever 10:07, 13 September 2011 (PDT)
- http://www.erepublik.com/en/propose-president-candidate/united-left-alliance-2898 (Hollenboer cannot step down by himself, it's the PP who can act on this) - Ward De Bever 10:07, 13 September 2011 (PDT)
Following phrases are completely irrelevant (unless you have proof that the facts had relevance in the matter of elections)
| “ ...because Jofroi had many employees ” | |
| (Article)
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| “ ...and had the support of the United Left Alliance's party president, Ward De Bever, who was also a major company owner ” | |
| (Article)
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- ... or unless writer clearly states that we (Jofroi or I) corrupt our workers to vote for us. - Ward De Bever 10:07, 13 September 2011 (PDT)
Until we reach a consensus here, the page will be protected from edits (so that this wouldn't happen again). --
sampo555 | Talk 07:06, 13 September 2011 (PDT)
- Last two I'll give you that they might not have been completely correct, but they aren't that bad and not worse then most of what is written on the wiki page. As for the first one I don't think there is a reference to that anywhere but Hollenboer was at first the candidate for ULA. Just because there isn't a reference to it doesn't mean it didn't happen --Fhaemita Malodorous 09:44, 13 September 2011 (PDT)
- On the first, what happened is that ULA took an unanimous decision to switch endorsement from Hollenboer to Jofroi because Jofroi was perceived as having better chances against MG. The Party President (me at the time) enforced this decision in-game with unanimous party support. What (maybe) happened between Jofroi and Hollenboer has not been made public and writer of this article cannot make gratuitious suppositions about it. - Ward De Bever 10:07, 13 September 2011 (PDT)
- Just added the proper references to the page that I collected myself and I find to be quite proper. If this situation can be resolved, sampo, would you mind doing the honours? -- Mikhail Alexander 23:29, 13 September 2011 (PDT)
- Honestly, I don't see these as proper references. Mikhail Alexander/Rowan Quigley is clearly a concerned party here and still he modifies a locked page (removing sysop tags) without consensus. - Ward De Bever 00:04, 14 September 2011 (PDT)
- Only thing he did was add references at places that was unreferenced and needed references. --Fhaemita Malodorous 00:42, 14 September 2011 (PDT)
- You requested for references to be added to the page and I provided your wish. Can you ever be satisfied? -- Mikhail Alexander 01:44, 14 September 2011 (PDT)
- Awaiting independent moderation. - Ward De Bever 02:30, 14 September 2011 (PDT)
- As the reference policy states Only eRepublik content can be used as reference. So IRC logs shouldn't be used as evidence. I would change the sentence to something like this: Only a few days after Hollenboer indirectly announced that he would be running, he stepped down as a running candidate so that he could be the Vice President of Jofroi's cabinet instead. For the last two sentences, I don't see that they have any value in this article. This is how I see things... --
sampo555 | Talk 10:26, 14 September 2011 (PDT) - I agree with this moderation proposal. I'm sorry to see an admin having been partisan in this matter though. - Ward De Bever 11:44, 14 September 2011 (PDT)
- As the reference policy states Only eRepublik content can be used as reference. So IRC logs shouldn't be used as evidence. I would change the sentence to something like this: Only a few days after Hollenboer indirectly announced that he would be running, he stepped down as a running candidate so that he could be the Vice President of Jofroi's cabinet instead. For the last two sentences, I don't see that they have any value in this article. This is how I see things... --
- Awaiting independent moderation. - Ward De Bever 02:30, 14 September 2011 (PDT)
- You requested for references to be added to the page and I provided your wish. Can you ever be satisfied? --
- Only thing he did was add references at places that was unreferenced and needed references. --Fhaemita Malodorous 00:42, 14 September 2011 (PDT)
- Honestly, I don't see these as proper references. Mikhail Alexander/Rowan Quigley is clearly a concerned party here and still he modifies a locked page (removing sysop tags) without consensus. - Ward De Bever 00:04, 14 September 2011 (PDT)
- Just added the proper references to the page that I collected myself and I find to be quite proper. If this situation can be resolved, sampo, would you mind doing the honours? --
- On the first, what happened is that ULA took an unanimous decision to switch endorsement from Hollenboer to Jofroi because Jofroi was perceived as having better chances against MG. The Party President (me at the time) enforced this decision in-game with unanimous party support. What (maybe) happened between Jofroi and Hollenboer has not been made public and writer of this article cannot make gratuitious suppositions about it. - Ward De Bever 10:07, 13 September 2011 (PDT)
- Last two I'll give you that they might not have been completely correct, but they aren't that bad and not worse then most of what is written on the wiki page. As for the first one I don't think there is a reference to that anywhere but Hollenboer was at first the candidate for ULA. Just because there isn't a reference to it doesn't mean it didn't happen --Fhaemita Malodorous 09:44, 13 September 2011 (PDT)
| “ Soon after the impeachment failed, NLSP, who was also a strong supporter of Jofroi, started a Supreme Court case against Monsieur Guillontine for supposedly helping Irish citizens become Belgian citizens to not only "steal" votes, but also help them politically-take-over Belgium. ” |
This will also need references (as NLSP pointed above; just moved it here so that people can see it better). -- sampo555 | Talk 22:31, 14 September 2011 (PDT)
I am willing to change the sentence to what you suggested, Sampo555. Here is also the reference to NLSP: http://www.erepbelgium.com/t4173-case-2011-007-requesting-type-a-investigation VietDragon 23:39, 14 September 2011 (PDT)
- I'm very happy with all references that I and Guillontine have given. -- Mikhail Alexander 23:41, 14 September 2011 (PDT)
- But the reference policy isn't. I'm gonna go forward with my own proposal about rephrasing the sentence this all is about. -- sampo555 | Talk 09:11, 15 September 2011 (PDT)
- I have no problem that is mentioned that I started on the eBelgium forum a request for an investigation to not following immigration procedure, even if no reference can be used for that (following the wiki reference policy). However since all the rest is not true, no reference (either allowed or not by the wiki referencepolicy) can be found for that, and should not be mentioned here. NLSP 10:38, 15 September 2011 (PDT)
- But the reference policy isn't. I'm gonna go forward with my own proposal about rephrasing the sentence this all is about. --
I am willing to change the NLSP sentence to:
Soon after the impeachment failed, NLSP, who was also a strong supporter of Jofroi, requested for a Supreme Court case against Monsieur Guillontine for supposedly abusing his powers as Minister of Home Affairs by neglecting the immigration procedures, which could have possibly led to a political-take-over.
So I guess that takes care of everything now :) VietDragon 16:24, 15 September 2011 (PDT)
- Changes done and page unprotected. -- sampo555 | Talk 08:07, 16 September 2011 (PDT)
- Sorry to see that being a company owner (which I don't dispute of course) is still presented to be a 'major advantage' in elections... which I also think is irrelevant and biased. But this mention here will maybe suffice to correct that bias. Thanks Sampo555 for the moderation. - Ward De Bever 11:45, 16 September 2011 (PDT)
SC case
As far as I can see, the SC trial is still ongoing. Please provide reference as to where MG was found innocent. - Ward De Bever 07:19, 18 September 2011 (PDT)
- I have to agree with Ward De Bever, the SC case is still open and therefore it isn't possible yet that the judges found him innocent. NLSP 12:53, 18 September 2011 (PDT)
sorry, that was my mistake. i fixed it.
VietDragon 17:59, 18 September 2011 (PDT)
- The SC case is closed now. Reference is needed or not needed, but it's not OK to leave the page as if the case was still open or suspended. MG was proven guilty and he apologised. Either forum ref is accepted and it's posted or it's not needed... still wiki needs to contain the right info. - Ward De Bever 02:47, 7 October 2011 (PDT)
Please stop the headless reverting and start to discuss! You have few weeks to reach a consensus as the page is protected until 21st Oct. -- sampo555 | Talk 05:09, 7 October 2011 (PDT)
- OK. I repeat what I already said: first, wiki needs to contain info, not fantasy; this is basic wiki policy i think. Second, either we choose to accept forum reality or not. A possible choice is to accept it. If we don't accept it, lots more will have to be deleted from this page. - Ward De Bever 05:32, 7 October 2011 (PDT)
- Forum links can't be used on the basis of not everyone can read them, also fantasy can be used, its called this template here Template:Fictional. --
Mikhail Alexander | Talk 05:36, 7 October 2011 (PDT)
- Good enough for me. Then please put that 'Fictional' template on top of the user page and we're done. MG may write whatever then. - Ward De Bever 05:38, 7 October 2011 (PDT)
- Since you seem to object my intervention with any page, I'll let sampo do it. -- Mikhail Alexander | Talk 05:43, 7 October 2011 (PDT)
- I don't object your intervention, I object biased interventions. But you're Australian now, so should be no problem :p - Ward De Bever 05:51, 7 October 2011 (PDT)
- I've always been Australia so I'll add it and wait for sampo to remove the protection on the page to make sure everything is confirmed -- Mikhail Alexander | Talk 06:38, 7 October 2011 (PDT)
- Agree with the resolution. Was talking about MA/RQ's citizen being Belgian for some time... nevermind revisionism or the risk of political interference ;) - Ward De Bever 07:51, 7 October 2011 (PDT)
- The page has been unlocked, please just keep the edit wars to a minimum. Me and sampo are sick and tired of locking pages and waiting for you to come to argue all the time. I don't have the time for this and neither does sampo, we have business elsewhere. -- Mikhail Alexander | Talk 00:13, 9 October 2011 (PDT)
- The page has been unlocked, please just keep the edit wars to a minimum. Me and sampo are sick and tired of locking pages and waiting for you to come to argue all the time. I don't have the time for this and neither does sampo, we have business elsewhere. --
- Agree with the resolution. Was talking about MA/RQ's citizen being Belgian for some time... nevermind revisionism or the risk of political interference ;) - Ward De Bever 07:51, 7 October 2011 (PDT)
- I've always been Australia so I'll add it and wait for sampo to remove the protection on the page to make sure everything is confirmed --
- I don't object your intervention, I object biased interventions. But you're Australian now, so should be no problem :p - Ward De Bever 05:51, 7 October 2011 (PDT)
- Since you seem to object my intervention with any page, I'll let sampo do it. --
- Good enough for me. Then please put that 'Fictional' template on top of the user page and we're done. MG may write whatever then. - Ward De Bever 05:38, 7 October 2011 (PDT)
- Forum links can't be used on the basis of not everyone can read them, also fantasy can be used, its called this template here Template:Fictional. --
Impeachment
PLEASE, don't start another edit war over impeachment. Just keep it neutral and don not make up any no conspiracy theories! -- sampo555 | Talk 09:02, 27 September 2011 (PDT)
- Propose: "Honorable impeachment ended his term, followed by an orderly power transition. The state was kept and safe."- eventual reference: http://www.erepublik.com/en/Belgium/law/84102 - Ward De Bever 11:47, 27 September 2011 (PDT)
Switzerland
Sorry mate, please revert the flag and all text without references. It's not correct and you can't place the flag because it's not the true flag of Switzerland. Once Guillontism is fully accepted, it can be added until then, it can't sorry mate. Please fix it up. -- 
Mikhail Alexander | Talk 19:14, 1 January 2012 (PST)
