eRepublik Official Wiki:Bar/June2009

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--QJ Lincoln Talk To Me 19:17, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Issues from May

These are issues from May that need to be resolved:

  • United Netherlands, pages for Netherlands and Belgium need to be changed to reflect the precedence of peacefully merging countries.
  • Too Many Parser function calls on pages that use ICountry
  • Fix issues with the translated versions of the Citizen Page Tutorial

NEW WIKI ORDER!

ALL WIKI EDITORS SHOULD READ
This is a summary of what was written in the May Bar, for the entire conversation, read the May Bar.

BACKGROUND
When V1 was released, to connect the game to the wiki through the black book links, wiki editors were required to create redirects. This created a situation where the wiki had more redirects than pages. Also, at least 50% of users neglected to create the redirects, forcing other users to make the connection back to the game. On May 5, an attempt was made to change this. The redirects were deleted and there was an experiment to force all wiki pages to have prefixes (creating the lovely "Country X" pages). The wiki community revolted. Not only did it break every link in the wiki, it made it impossible to write pages, and just looked silly. As a result, it has been decided that the game developers will change the way the game links to the wiki, skipping redirects and prefixes. This code change should be accomplished in a few months.

THIS IS THE NEW WIKI ORDER:

  • Redirects were deleted, causing red links, do not assume it means CONTENT was deleted.
  • The experiment with prefixes is over. From now on, prefixes will NOT be used in front of page names (eg, Country Pakistan or Citizen Frank)
  • The wiki is no longer case sensitive
  • The wiki will not be connected to the game for a period of time until the coding that links the game to the wiki is revised.
  • Redirects can now be made (after reading guidelines)
  • All new pages should be started from the wiki, not by clicking the wiki link in the game.

THIS IS WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE: (revised)

  • Links created with prefixes need to be changed
  • Redirects need to be recreated to link cities to regions

REDIRECT GUIDELINES:

  • It isn't preferred, but users can create redirects between the game and the wiki, no one will stop you. But we ask that no effort is made to recreate all of the redirects that were deleted after May 5 because they will be deleted again (why waste your time and someone else's later?)
  • Do not create redirects for party abbreviations. There are getting to be so many parties in the game, it is hard to know what the abbreviations mean. If you choose to use an abbreviation in your article and want it to be a link, please do this instead: [[Black Lion Front|BLF]].
  • Do not create redirects for misspellings. (seriously, people do this...)

Further Explanations:

In the future, the eRep game developers will create links so that the wiki link in the game will go directly to the wiki page. So if your user name is John Smith, clicking the link in the game will open the page "John Smith". There will be no interim redirect page with Citizen in front of it. This will happen when the developers can make time to change the code.
Pages that were deleted were pages that started with "Citizen" (or Company, Newspaper, Country, Region). These pages didn't have content, they only had redirects that linked user profiles to the wiki. So Citizen eLW linked to a page called ELw where all of your content is. You just probably didn't notice it. When the transition is over, the wiki black book link will work again and take you directly to your user page, without a need to create a redirect page in between. Oh and about the name "New Wiki Order"... I thought an homage to conspiracy theories was in order.

Redirects

After conversion script there's some names with [[ ]] and it links nowhere so it may happen because a lot redirections were deleted, so I think we should find where it was linked before. Names: construction, Members of Congress, manufacturing, force, army, party election links to voting system, but I think there should be new page for it like with congress and presidential elections. Maybe someone have found more so write it here. Taksas027 Icon-Lithuania.pngTalk

Agreed, a lot of users think pages were deleted when only the REDIRECT was deleted. Remember there is a "Search" field and decent "Advanced Search" feature to look for pages. --QJ Lincoln Talk To Me 18:17, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Religion Policy Deployed!

June 1, 2009 marks the deployment of a much needed and desired policy to the wiki, the Religion policy. The content of this policy was debated in eRepublik Official Wiki:Bar/Debate 10 and in last month's bar. I ask that users that would like to have questions about the policy to write it on the talk page. If you have a religion article you would like to be approved, per the policy, leave a notice in the bar here. --QJ Lincoln Talk To Me 18:17, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Uber Editors

At my request, QJ Lincoln made some improvements to the EREP:UBER page; mainly to include how the Uber Editors are promoted and demoted retired. Based on these improvements, I'm asking that the following contributors are returned to the normal contributor status (all of them have no or little contributions to the Wiki in the last month):

As you can read in the linked page above, we have 7 days at our disposal to reach a resolution regarding their status as Uber Editors. --Geo (talk) 23:15, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Even though I'm not an Uber Editor, it would sadden me greatly to see people get demoted from a title they've at one point deserved based on "contributions, quality, understanding of the wiki code, innovations, and frequency of contributions to the wiki" just because of inactivity. Sure, some go inactive permanently, some go temporarily, but their absence shouldn't override their hard work which has built a lot of what we see before us today. However, when I read that "After demotion, the user will have a note on their user page stating that they were an Uber Editor and dates of service to the wiki community," I guess it does leave them some credit. I just think it would be better to have a list of active and inactive Uber Editors on the page. Just my two cents... especially when I saw Minibill was on the demotion list.
Rasta Lion Esteban Rasta Lion Delgado Rasta Lion 00:24, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
I know exactly what you are saying. Maybe "demotion" is too harsh of a word? The argument for "demotion" or "retirement" is that we want a list of people who are CURRENT in the wiki to recognize them for their work and to help other users. Uber Editorship is something that is rightfully earned and I don't want people to lose that. Keeping a list of "Uber Editor Alumni" on the Uber Editor page is a good idea. I think also having a category that goes along with that is fine too. Also, Esteban, you can vote against demotion. --QJ Lincoln Talk To Me 00:29, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Yes, that most definitely sounds better. A list of Uber Editor Alumni or Hall of Fame is perfect, but demotion almost always has a bad connotation (it would almost be like putting them on a wall of shame when I really don't see any of them deserving it). So my vote is against "demotion" but for what you suggested. -1 or 0 with said compromise.
Rasta Lion Esteban Rasta Lion Delgado Rasta Lion 00:38, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Ok. It has been a week. No differing opinions on retirement. I will be putting a not on the user pages today. Hopefully it will be replaced with a snazzy template soon. --QJ Lincoln Talk To Me 17:47, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

User:ThisGenMedia ... Why is ThisGenMedia not part of the 'retired' section? This person has done no wiki work for months except fro a couple conversations on peoples talk pages. Pierric Bross 09:50, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

The criteria for selection for this round of retirements was "Has the user had any activity on the wiki in the last month?" ThisGenMedia did. If you would like to formally nominate him for retirement, you are more than welcome to do so. :) --QJ Lincoln Talk To Me 12:49, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
I would like to formally nominate him for retirement. If anything getting retirement might actually prompt him to earn back his uber-editor instead of sitting on it not doing anything. Pierric Bross 22:19, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
I have retracted my comment, thank you QJ. ----Hrvat User_talk:Hrvat 01:33, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
No, the policy is that people keep their wiki accounts unless they decide to take out their anger regarding their ban out on the wiki through vandalism. And ThisGenMedia has been retired due to no objections to it. --QJ Lincoln Talk To Me 19:59, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Thank you QJ Pierric Bross 04:40, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
Friends and enemies, I am still here. I have had some problems this month which are almost solved so I will come back here. Didn't you miss me, QJ ;) Love y'all. I don't care about Uber Editor though anyway, the name it self is so childish so I don't even want to be part of it. But I agree there should be something for people who were here first to do lots of dirty work, not to brag, but myself personally and a lot of others that not many know but did a lot of work. I forgot the guys name but I got it somewhere I will check soon, he started with the whole template things which was improved by others - he does deserve some recognition. --Aryamehr Flag of Iran talk 22:00, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
Hi Aryamehr! Nice to see you back! I hope that your real life is going smoothly. I think you are referring to User:Hagnat2, User:Nikolaos Sauzer Zachariadis, User:Tigran Jamiro, User:Platonic, User:King Waseem, User:OchiReci, User:Sardar Mehdi, User:Seductiv (can't recall others at the moment). Good contributors in my opinion. Too bad that they "left" without saying "goodbye". Regards, --Geo (talk) 07:49, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Wiki Rewards

Updates

Someone please add the following information to the corresponding pages:

  • party presidents cannot support members of other parties unless they are supported by the president of their own party
  • retreat is disabled for the last region of a country. When multiple battles are fought in a region, the retreat option is available only for the battle which started first (if that battle is not a Resistance war

from here: http://www.erepublik.com/en/forum/topic/81534/erepublik-updates/3. Thanks in advance!

Also, if you see discrepancies between pages that present the same information, bring it up for discussion. It seems like there are a handful of pages that are very confusing. For 2 examples, see the upper menus from the pages: President or War Tutorial. --Geo "Talk Pages" Belea 12:44, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm bumping this discussion in order to propose new idea. --Geo (talk) 01:09, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
I made the requested changes. There are some competing navigation menus in the war pages, this needs to be rethought. --QJ Lincoln Talk To Me 17:11, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Religion Policy Inclusion

I've posted a request on the Religion Policy page about the inclusion of Lewdaism. Let's get to it!--Geno Garon USA: Just trying to get by... 17:50, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

I would like some other opinions about this article and its adherence to the policy... AndyCro? AgentChieftain? Belea2008? Hrvat? Anyone else want to take a look? I don't want it to just be MY decision. --QJ Lincoln Talk To Me 14:25, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Template Names

Help:Common_templates

  • can we rename Template:Infobox_military_unit to Military Unit or with something even shorter (at least without the "infobox" word in it)?

(I consider that the current name is too long and is misleading when someone searches for css and js sections in articles)

  • can we make only one Template:Flag out of the 5 different versions?

(1 template is much easier to maintain and improve than 5 different ones) --Geo "Talk Pages" Belea 17:00, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

+1 on both. About the flag "problem": as soon as Martin uploads the svg form of flags we can design a new flag template. --Mini "Template" Bill Italian in the deep core bother me! 19:31, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
I'm working on it! I have them ready to upload; I just need to see about the problems in the rendering software. Plus I am busy revising for my exams!--Martin23230 19:29, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
Leave the SVG files for later. Focus on your exams first! And this is not a threat... :D
Seriously speaking, don't neglect important things in your life (like, for example, tiny details like passing exams).
--Geo "Talk Pages" Belea 19:34, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
Thanks, and trust me, I will return with a vengence after these are over. The fact I am no longer a congressman is probably a sign! --Martin23230 17:48, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
Bump! Could someone take care of these two issues? Thanks in advance! --Geo (talk) 09:17, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for bringing this back up. My last exam is tommorow (Yay!), so I will se about this at the weekend. You picked a good time to continue this. --Martin23230 09:22, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
I've been looking into a tool to help me edit template transclusions on pages when they're moved, though I've had no luck in finding one that suits my needs. Seeing red links on pages because a template redirect was deleted is sloppy, and I'm refraining from doing so because of the horrible mess it creates (Which is completely unnecessary). - –Dr. AgentChieftain Flag of the Crescent and Star PPP! B / C / D / F / P / S 21:08, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
@Agent - I have only one solution to that challenge - http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:MassEditRegex (only usable by Bots). --Geo (talk) 17:15, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

IProduct and other templates

There is an issue with the IProduct template. It is putting the pages into Category:Products. Only English pages should be here. The translated pages should be only in the language category. Can someone, who knows what they are doing, remove the automatic categorization? --QJ Lincoln Talk To Me 11:10, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Maybe. But honestly, all of the templates should be completely updated. Especially ITemplates. I can try to do it, but due to my busy schedule, I can correct them all in July. And also, what about newer versions of Citizen (some citizens have 10+ offices, more eRep wiki links) and Region templates? Also, what do you say that we create City template for the "old" cities, like original location, etc.? --AndyCro Icon-Croatia.png Click here to talk with me baby! ;) 13:40, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
Well, we are waiting for the citizen template, but AgentChieftain is hung up on some things. Once we get that done, we will be able to redo the others. For the old cities, we should only create redirects to their regions. That is how it was before the redirects were deleted. --QJ Lincoln Talk To Me 17:34, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

None Page

What should be done about the none page? There are many links leading to it because of ways templates are set up and such. Should we make a filler page of some sort or leave it a red link?
Rasta Lion Esteban Rasta Lion Delgado Rasta Lion 14:53, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

As I can see, this page is not needed because it was created when people enter none for the people who obtain some office position. Examples and ideas for solution of this few cases are written below. --AndyCro Icon-Croatia.png Click here to talk with me baby! ;) 15:04, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Example 1: Mexico and Bolivia are linked because "none" should be the name of the ministers.
Solution: If you don't known the name of minister, simply write Unknown and do not link it.
Example 2: On your citizen page, none was written for preceded and succeeded people in your office positions.
Solution: If you don't know, or if your precedent / successor doesn't exist, simply DO NOT fill this positions
I periodically go to people's pages and remove these silly links also people like to put "-" into the templates. DO NOT create a page for None or - because it will encourage people to use these! I think it is clearly written on the template notes to leave things blank if you don't know information... --QJ Lincoln Talk To Me 17:17, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Parties with the same name

I have a problem. I have two parties: Social Democratic Party (Ukraine) and old party Social Democratic Party (Czech Republic). Do you agree that I created disambiguation page on Social Democratic Party and that I create articles Social Democratic Party (Ukraine) and Social Democratic Party (Czech Republic), or do you have maybe another idea? Maybe insted the name of the country to write the number of the party? Your input is more than needed. --AndyCro Icon-Croatia.png Click here to talk with me baby! ;) 17:31, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Disambiguation page with links to country-specified parties. Numbers look stupid and don't immediately make it clear what party it is. —Nicolae Carpathia | PEACE Global Community | Talk 17:51, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Yes, this is a better option, just wanted to "consolidate" with my editors. Maybe we should create a tutorial for editors what to do if some region, party, ... have the same name. --AndyCro Icon-Croatia.png Click here to talk with me baby! ;) 14:56, 22 June 2009 (UTC)




And while I was writing this problem, I have two parties with the same name in Croatia. On wiki we have the old one Hrvatska Demokratska Stranka, which on erep is now Srpska Demokratska Stranka, and on erep we have new Hrvatska Demokratska Stranka. What to do about this case?--AndyCro Icon-Croatia.png Click here to talk with me baby! ;) 17:31, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Is the new Hrvatska Demokratska Stranka created by the former party leaders of what is now the Srpska Demokratska Stranka? As I understand it the HDS was taken over by Serbs who changed it to SDS. If my understanding is correct, then I would create a page for the SDS with a link from the HDS explaining that the first HDS party was taken over and a new party was created to counteract that takeover. —Nicolae Carpathia | PEACE Global Community | Talk 17:51, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Yes, disambiguation pages with the country name would be appropriate. In the case that they are the same country... well, why are there two parties with the same name? I would suspect as Nicolae Carpathia stated that it's the same party, just a different party number on eRep because the previous got taken over or something... If that's the case, then only one page needs to be made for it. However, if two completely separate parties happen to have the same name, the best idea would be to consolidate that in eRep.
Rasta Lion
Esteban "Rasta Lion" Delgado
Rasta Lion
18:34, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Flag Party election May Leader what happened in June? Flag June-Party renamed to: Leader current situation
Party-Hrvatska Demokratska Stranka.jpg Hrvatska Demokratska Stranka rocker-ma Serbs stage TO of Croatian party Party-Srpska Demokratska Stranka.jpg Srpska Demokratska Stranka Sakal_ks ex-Croatian HDS party is now Serbian
Party-Demokratska Stranka Srbije.jpg Demokratska Stranka Srbije Hrvat Croats from HDS move into this party Party-Hrvatska Demokratska Stranka.jpg Hrvatska Demokratska Stranka matrixcore ex_Serbian party is renamed to HDS by Croats

hope this explains situation...
Political party with Erepublik number=2314 was Croatian party, now is Serbian Party.
Political party with Erepublik number=2439 was Serbian party, now is Croatian party.
Two political parties have simply swapped 'offices'... so Nicolae Carpathia solution would be correct one (I think)----Hrvat User_talk:Hrvat 05:24, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

This info should be noted in both of their respective articles and in each of their party templates where is says "Succeeded by" and "Proceeded by."
Rasta Lion
Esteban "Rasta Lion" Delgado
Rasta Lion
14:50, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
OK, I have updated the Hrvatska Demokratska Stranka and added info about June 2009. I didn't add precede or succeed but I am considering this options. If you add succeeded than the party will automatically become historical which is not the truth. So I think that this remark about June must be enough. --AndyCro Icon-Croatia.png Click here to talk with me baby! ;) 14:56, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Idea about Uber Editors

From being Uber Editor I'm not having any additional rights on Wiki. My idea is, to create a group on Wiki (Admin must do this), let's call it "Uber". In my idea, rights of this group are (I will use names of rights as they appear here):

  • delete - because "Uber Editors are (...) editors that have created a reputation".
  • ipblock-exempt
  • editprotected
  • protect
  • purge
  • minoredit

If somebody have idea on another rights, feel free to write them here. --Icon-Poland.png Grzechooo (his discussion) 17:19, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

You are pretty much asking for Sysops rights. Being a sysop is a totally different role. --QJ Lincoln Talk To Me 19:56, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, being a UE should be more of a title given to senior editors as a form of gratitude for helping the wiki in extraordinary ways as well as a person to go to when a noob editor requires assistance with the wiki. Why would they need to be ipblock-exempt? It's not like they're gods in shining armor who will never do anything that warrants a banning.
{{EDSig}} 21:23, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
Well, maybe ipblock-exempt isn't the best right I chose, but editprotected is good, because Sysops aren't always on Wiki. protect & delete, hmm... I'm not sure about this. --Icon-Poland.png Grzechooo (his discussion) 11:30, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
I'm not exactly sure what minoredit or purge is really either.
{{EDSig}} 12:19, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
I would not want to give them any rights when it comes to banning, blocking, page deletion, or anything that could be overtly abused with huge downsides. But giving them the ability to Protect pages is okay with me. Pierric Bross 10:06, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

I think that protect could be interesting, other powers are not really needed imho. Anyway, is a protect-empowered group really needed now? --Mini "Template" Bill Icon-Italy.png bother me! 13:05, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

No, we don't have many pages that need to be protected. --QJ Lincoln Talk To Me 13:36, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Portal tutorial

Moved to Help:Portals

Can you move this info to its own page? It would be better to work on it outside of the bar. --QJ Lincoln Talk To Me 19:09, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Can I just add that this is a great tutorial! - malta_1990
thanks malta :) will put it on the page Help:Portals :) --Mr.Srachit (talk with me) :awesome: 16:33, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
I think we need to have a discussion about what should be allowed to have a portal. This is the definition of a portal "Portals are pages intended to serve as "Main Pages" for specific topics or areas. Portals may be associated with one or more WikiProjects; unlike WikiProjects, however, they are meant for both readers and editors of Wikipedia, and should promote content and encourage contribution." I think topics that have a lot of articles about them are ok for portals, like countries and topics like "military". But I am not so sure we want to allow a free for all on portals in the wiki. Should people be able to create them for a single political party? For an organization and its holdings? Discuss.--QJ Lincoln Talk To Me 16:42, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

well a portal is used to gather information from around the wiki on a specific topic for easy understanding and reading of something. I am sure orgs and individuals and parties need only one page for their information so I guess a portal should only be for countries, topics like military and economy and such --Mr.Srachit (talk with me) :awesome: 16:57, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Rather that their own portals, parties and companies with many articles related to them should have their own category(ies) in a tree-like structure. Like the Black Lion Front used to have its own category because if had many other "see also" pages like pages about the Young Lions and the Azandicas. But during my leave of absence from October 2008 to now, a bunch of categories have gotten deleted so I don't know what's legal or not for categories. I totally think this proposal should be thought through though.
{{EDSig}} 04:32, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Categories are a separate issue (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:FAQ/Categorization). Esteban, small or "label type" categories are constantly removed. There are issues with pages being over categorized. Categories have to mean something. Categories are a way to group similar pages, but they are not labels. I go by the rule that a new category shouldn't be created unless there is more than 2 articles in or if it is reasonable to assume there will be. I think if a party has more than one wiki page, which some do (there are some prolific UK parties) then I have no problem with party categories, HOWEVER, I have a problem with every party automatically having a category that would only house their party page. --QJ Lincoln Talk To Me 17:58, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I didn't mean that every party should have a category, only similar pages that are big enough to have their own category but where a portal is not warranted.
{{EDSig}} 18:46, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Some random thoughts

  • eRepublik Official Wiki:Rewards/2009/June - do not add me on that list, add the 8th or 9th contributor (which deseverses more the reward) and move the list here: eRepublik:Rewards (also, a date when that list was comprised will be useful) - I thought that the text on the Rewards page is pretty self explanatory how things are suppose to go on over there. :|
  • Special:ListRedirects - apparently some persons don't understand what they are for and that creating them out of nowhere and for every little tiny thing is not such a good thing. I think we need a policy or some guidelines for them. (also, guidelines for "categories" will help a certain sysop a lot)
  • some Signatures are evil - okay, i understand the need of (some) contributors for expressing their wiki personas in different ways, but some signatures and user pages are becoming way too much - somewhere in time all signature pages will be deleted without notice. Also, some user pages may be deleted for becoming chaotic/non sense.
  • and some (kind of) good news - I have now like 20 Gold or something; I also earn 0.5+ Gold per day. I have no use for them, so I'm proposing a Wiki contest --- there are there a bunch of links and ideas on my user page - any person which takes one random link and idea and adds it in a friendly and constructive and communicative manner to the Wiki will be rewarded with 0.5 Gold. How it will all be logged (which contributor added what idea/link from my user page)? Simple: after you finish with one, you strike it in my user page and add your Wiki username after it. Any thoughts?

--Geo (talk) 15:24, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

I changed it now. --K3ndu 05:03, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
1.5 Gold donated to K3ndu for the following contributions:
--Geo (talk) 07:35, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
I think I am going to have to create a category for these types of pages. Or a notice or something... For "This article came from a newspaper and expresses the opinions of the author." --QJ Lincoln Talk To Me 11:31, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
+ Ambassador Program (although it need some more information)
As a side note, the The Swedish Nobel Prize needs the second round of prizes to be documented + a final section on the Hypogeum article about the "last dance" wrote by Emerick.
Another 3.5 Gold donated to K3ndu. I will make some cleanup on my user page in a few minutes. --Geo (talk) 11:40, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
@ QJ - not quite - not all these pages belong in their own page - for example: the "last dance" and history of war pages. I noted them down (all of these articles and the ones that are still left in my user page, because each of them have interesting thoughts to be documented pertaining to subjects that have been already started to be elaborated in the Wiki). --Geo (talk) 12:00, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
Apparently, I can't keep up with K3ndu contributions - could someone make me a list (when he or other finish) with what Gold I still owe and what other pages have been created (leave it on my talk page or here in the Bar). Thanks in advance! --Geo (talk) 13:22, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Another 6 Gold donated to K3ndu:

--Geo (talk) 18:02, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

World War and the Wiki (Debate 11)

I have made a start on "the Great War", please go here to continue the debate if you have missed it.--Martin23230 07:54, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

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